SEAMK Podcast: Kestävän ruokapöydän ääressä: Jakso 5, Food waste in public catering services in Finland
Kestävän ruokapöydän ääressä -podcast-sarjan viidennessä ja sarjan viimeisessä jaksossa Silvia Gaiani (Helsingin yliopiston Ruralia-instituutt) ja Paula Juvonen (Helsingin kaupunki) keskustelevat julkisten ruokapalveluiden ruokahävikistä.
Puhuja 1: Terhi Ahola-Olli
Puhuja 2: Silvia Gaiani
Puhuja 3: Paula Juvonen
[Intro music]
Terhi Ahola-Olli:
Welcome to the sustainable table. We invite you to join us at our shared table to explore the future of the food sector and how sustainability and responsibility are being built in practice right now. This is at the Sustainable Table podcast. In this podcast, you’ll hear from the voices behind South Ostrobothnia’s food sector, the people and actions driving a more sustainable food system. This podcast is produced as part of Sustainable and Responsible Food Province project, which brings together actors across South Ostrobothnia’s food system and supports their work toward a low carbon and environmentally responsible future. Project is co-founded by the European Union.
[Intro music]
Silvia Gaiani:
Good morning, everyone, and it’s a pleasure to be here and to participate in this episode of the podcast series At the Sustainable Table. My name is Silvia Galliani and I’m a senior researcher at Rural Institute which is part of University of Helsinki. I’m currently based in Seinäjoki where one of the two units of Ruralia is currently based. And what I do is I’m doing research on food sustainability, food innovation and food entrepreneurship, and it’s a pleasure for me to be here today to talk with you and Paula, our guest here, about sustainability and the role that food waste plays in it.
Before starting the interview, I think it would be important to provide the definition of food loss and food waste and what the two different terms really mean and refer to. According to FAO definition, food loss is the food which is lost from production until distribution. Meanwhile food waste is food, which is wasted from retailers to consumers, so different steps of the food supply chain are taken into account. when dividing and talking and differentiating between food loss and food waste. So basically, when we speak about food waste, we refer to food which is wasted by retailers, catering services, restaurants and in the very last stage, consumers.
I think what is important to say is that food waste has many environmental, social and economic impacts. For example, in Finland, and from the purely economic point of view, and if we are talking about consumers, households throw away an estimated 500 million euros worth of food. And this is equal to an impressive amount of money, which is also thrown away with food because Finnish households discard the food which is worth between 400 and 550 million euros per year. So can you imagine how much money connected to food is thrown away by Finnish consumers? And I think something else that should be mentioned is that when we talk about food waste but also food loss, which is the food which is lost at the beginning of the food supply chain from production to distribution, it means that when food is wasted, all the resources, that were needed to produce that food, are also wasted. Think about the land, the water, the energy that were used for produced food, that consumers are eating on a daily basis.
And then I think also it would be important to mention what is the connection between food waste and carbon emissions. So annually Finnish household discard food waste that have an impact of about 100,000 cars polluting. So this is quite impressive I have to say. And This is why consumers need really to take their behaviors into account and really fight to change their consumption behavior and put in place some efforts to promote responsible and sustainable consumption.
So the current episode today will be centered around the topic of food waste in public catering, why it matters and what’s the impact that food waste has on environment, on society and on economics. So thank you so much I think this is a wonderful opportunity. And it’s a pleasure for me to have today with us Paula Juvonen, she is an expert in food, and she has been working in food waste on in public catering for a long time. So happy to have you here, Paula with us, and can you please introduce yourself?
Paula Juvonen:
Thank you, Sylvia, and good morning to everyone. Yes, I have worked a long time, actually 25 years in a public catering in big cities. And at this moment I work in the social and health sector of the City of Helsinki. But I just started a week ago, so I don’t know much about that, but I’m speaking in larger scale. I have worked as a food service manager and now I am a customer or a key account manager in the Helsinki.
Silvia Gaiani
OK, Paula, thank you so much for such a good introduction. I have a question for you. Can you tell us how big the food waste issue is in public catering in Finland and why, above all, is food wasted?
Paula Juvonen
Yes, it is a big problem in Finland and like in other countries too. In Finland approximately 400 million kilograms of a food is wasted every year, and from that 400 million kilograms per year food services make like 17 %. The household [waste issue] is still bigger, but anyway, the public catering part is quite big. And it means that there are schools and their care centers and senior centers and hospitals in the public catering. And I have some statistics in Finland that in schools about 18% of food ends up as a waste in daycare centers, like even up to 27% of the food prepared ends up as a waste. In senior centers and hospitals, 28% of prepared foods end up as a waste. So, I think that is a big problem.
Silvia Gaiani
But do you think food waste is a recent phenomenon? I mean, maybe 50 years ago there was not so much food waste as we have now. Because I’m really struck by these big numbers and data that are constantly collected in order to measure food loss on one side, but also food waste. And I was really wondering, why has the world changed so much, so that now we have such big amounts of food waste? What is the main issue behind that, and what can we do or what can public services do in order to reduce food waste?
Paula Juvonen
Well, I think during my 25 years in public catering food waste has always been a problem. And for example, in schools nowadays, you never know how many are coming to the dining room, how many are going to eat and are they eating at all. So, (in the kitchen) you have to know or guess how much to make food, and they are quite good there. And that’s why the biggest problem is the waste in the line service. And in the daycare centers, when you have little babies, it’s easier because they are always there, they can’t go anywhere else. But in schools, teenagers go to shops or to McDonald’s or anywhere and buy the food there, because they don’t like the school food. And that’s why it’s so important in the menu planning that you plan foods, that children or teenagers like it, and the same issue in the senior centers, that you make the food that the seniors like and they are a different kind of foods. So that’s why you have to have a separate menu for each customer. And public catering does that. And in hospitals it’s even harder because there are people from babies to seniors. So how do you make food which everyone likes?
[Music]
Silvia Gaiani
I think it’s really interesting that you are mentioning food waste in schools in Finland. Do you think that maybe an option could be to introduce education on food waste in the schools’ curricula, for example. So could education help even young students to understand the issue, and to let them start doing something about reducing food waste?
Paula Juvonen
Yes, that’s a good idea. And I think that is exactly what you should do and what has been done in schools too. Nowadays, I’m not working with the school food, but when I did, we did have some education. And we did have some projects where we went to the school dining room and we measured and we told [about food waste] and everyone who left something, he or she could see at once how many grams there was? So, when you are measuring and making it obvious, it makes your conscience awake when we are talking about teenagers. That’s why the school is very interesting because you can affect and you can educate the children, but you can’t educate the seniors. I’m sorry. But you can’t.
Then the most important thing is that you make food that they like and they eat, and that’s not why there is waste. In school waste is because they don’t want to eat or they don’t like it. But in senior centers the problem is different it or in the hospitals. There the problem is that the nurse orders too much food for the customers, so that is the most important thing to discuss with the kitchen. How much and how big portions. What is on the menu today. So that they can order the right amount of food.
Silvia Gaiani
I think what you mentioned before is really interesting. You brought up the topic that food is about pleasure and it’s about enjoying what you like. And on one side we have this approach, but on the other side, for example, we have these Nordic Nutritional Recommendations that really push people to consume more legume-based food, for example, or alternative proteins.
So do you think there is a mismatch? Between what the Nordic Nutritional Recommendations suggest and what actually happens in reality, like in schools what people do really like to eat. I mean what they should eat, because that’s a big question mark for me.
Paula Juvonen
In schools with children, I think it’s really important that we educate them. So, that’s why we have to take the nutrition recommendations, and you can do good food with the recommendations too, That’s not a problem And it’s good to learn the children to eat more vegetables, but you can’t push them to do it, you have to give them a choice. So, if there are like, two different meals you can choose, that’s a good thing. The other one is the vegetable food, the ve- umm, maybe not vegan, but even vegan sometimes but vegetarian anyway, and the other one is something else and then you can choose. And then in the meat dshes or meals, you can also put more vegetables in so you can educate and teach the children to eat more vegetable as it is said in the nutrition recommendation. But don’t force make them choice.
Silvia Gaiani
I think that’s always the best solution. Yeah, I mean, let people choose so that they can be their own decisions. But also, as you said, the children need to be educated about the value of food. Because on one side we have taste, but on the other side we have the value of food, which is very often forgotten. And this also leads to food waste in a way, because we give food for granted, we are surrounded by food. Food is available 24 hours a day. So I mean, we no longer know the real value of food somehow.
Paula Juvonen
[Agrees non-verbally]
Silvia Gaiani
But jumping to another topic. Can you tell me what is your organization doing in order to reduce food waste?
Paula Juvonen
Well, as I said, I have worked in Helsinki only one week, so I don’t know how much about that.
Silvia Gaiani
[Laughs softly]
Paula Juvonen
But I think it’s the way of working is same in all the big organizations. First you have to measure the food waste, so that you know how much there is now. And then you can plan what you should do to get it down. And now when I’m working in the social and health sector in those elderly houses or centers, there is not kitchen staff, because the nurses are delivering the food to the customers. So there is actually no one to measure the food because it’s not nurses job.
So that’s why we need to discuss and plan how would we do that. So could they measure it, for example a week in a year or so that we could know, is there a problem and how big the problem is. And we have to make the decision who is doing and what is doing. And then we need, with our food producer, to discuss that too. Because, when we have measured [the food waste], we can see which days, maybe there is this dish that this meal that they don’t like. When we see that “OK, there’s lots of food waste every day, when there is this food”, so let’s take it away from menu. And that’s how menu planning is working anyway. But you need to have these facts from the customer, what is left and what is going to food waste.
And in hospitals there is also a different kind of problem. Because in schools and daycare and elderly houses, it’s usually the food is put on the line, and you can take it yourself. But in hospitals the food is shared in the plates already in the kitchen and the plates are on the trays that goes to the patient. So you can’t take yourself how much you want to eat or what you want to eat. So it’s really important that the nurses ask the patient, because in every hospital in Finland there are different choices of the meals. They are small, medium, large or even extra small and extra large, so if you ask, you can order the right size. And a big problem in hospitals is also that they order food for patients who have gone home or are not there. So, there are many plates which are meant for the patients who are not anymore there, and then they go back to the kitchen and no one has even touched them. And that’s the biggest problem in hospital and that’s why we, again, have to discuss and motivate the nurses to first order, the right food, right meals and then cancel the meals that are not needed.
Silvia Gaiani
OK, so when talking about food ways that there is a human component because people have different tastes and then in the case of hospitals. It’s all about the nurses taking care of how to reduce food waste by really looking at the patient and listening to them. But do you think that there are other possible solutions to reduce food waste, like for example technology? Can it help?
Paula Juvonen
Yes, it must help because we have to remember that the nurse’s main task is to take care of the people’s health, not food.
Silvia Gaiani
True
Paula Juvonen
Yeah, so it’s not their fault. And yes, we need technology. And actually, in public catering, the ordering and the cancelling of the meals is made by applications. So, there is already technology, but they should be so easy to use that you can just take your phone and order or cancel the meals walking from one customer to another customer. Yeah, and now I think it’s not that easy, so we need to get easier way to order and to cancel. And if you have to order or cancel your lunch at 7:00 in the morning, you can’t know who is there then, so it should be faster. But this depends on how the food is made. If the food is made like cook and chill or cook and serve, so is it cold or warm when it’s coming from the kitchen? Do you have to warm it up in the kitchen or in the department? So there are many things that affect these things, but yes, we absolutely need some more technology here and good and fast.
[Music]
Silvia Gaiani
Can I ask you something else? How about the recovery? Are you aware, for example, I’m thinking about all the food which is wasted in schools and hospitals. Is there a way to recover that food and give it a second life to that food?
Paula Juvonen
Yes.
Silvia Gaiani
Or is it basically thrown to the beans and then forgotten.
Paula Juvonen
In schools where the food is in the line, you can sell it afterwards. Especially the food that hasn’t been in the line yet and is still in the kitchen, you can sell it. But in the hospital, when the food is on the plate and it has been in the department, it has been in the room of the patient, you can’t sell it anymore. So that’s absolutely waste. But in schools and this line systems, it’s easier. And actually many schools and many restaurants sell the, how do you call it, waste food?
Silvia Gaiani
Yes
Paula Juvonen
They sell it really cheap price through the people who are working there or the other people. It’s very common. And that’s a good way.
Silvia Gaiani
Good. According to Finnish policies, there is a plan that says that by 2030, Finland will have to reduce food waste by 50%. Do you think this is an achievable result? Is it possible really to reduce food waste by 50%? And do you think there is enough cooperation among stakeholders by now to make this happen?
Paula Juvonen
I think it is possible because it has to be possible. Because we need to reduce this food waste. It’s not only the food, it’s also the money that you throw away every time you throw food away. And actually, this selling of food is a really good way, and we do have many applications where you can order the waste food and then go and buy it. It is used in many restaurants too and in the public catering too. So yes, with these applications and more technology and cooperation with all the people, I think it is possible. But it needs work and discussion and it needs that we are all motivated to do it. We have to understand what is the point here.
Silvia Gaiani
To me, the whole debate around food waste is really interesting. I think like 50 or maybe 60 years ago, no one was talking about food waste, because probably food waste, first of all was not the issue, but secondly it was almost non-existent. But what has happened? I mean, in the last years, why we have this huge amount of food which is produced and wasted? And to me, what is really interesting is that on one side that the world is already producing enough food to feed the whole world. On the other side, we have this huge amount of food which is wasted, especially in the western world, on a daily basis. Who is the future going to be like? Will we be able to reduce food waste or will the situation go worse and worse and we will produce more and we will throw away more?
Paula Juvonen
I hope not. 60 years ago, we were poor, we were hungry, we ate everything we had. And then we got more money, and we wanted to choose. And public catering, you didn’t have the choice to choose. But I think in the future it’s going that way, that way we can choose, because when we can choose, we like it more.
And actually, I’ve been visiting a hospital in Stockholm actually two. And there is like a menu for the patients, and there’s like 10 dishes. There you can choose your appetizers, your main food, your dessert. You can choose whatever you want, and then you eat it. And now, that’s what I know about Helsinki, we have this one hospital project and there they are going to have opportunity to choose what you eat. They will not have 10 meals or 10 dishes in the menu, but they will have at least three, I’m not quite sure about this, but [laughing] at least three. And when you can choose what you want to eat, I think you will eat it more probably than when it’s just given to you that “this is today, eat or not”. So I think that’s the future.
Silvia Gaiani
Yeah. So I’m happy you see a pink future here in terms of food waste reduction.
Paula Juvonen
[Laughs]
Silvia Gaiani
So when we talk about food waste, the food waste is not only the food wasted in public services, but it’s also food wasted in retailers and food wasted, for example, in restaurants. But also food wasted by consumers at home. So, what do you think our listeners could do to reduce food waste on a daily basis and in a personal way.
Paula Juvonen
Well, first when you go to grocery shop, please buy only the food you are going to eat. And then storage it at home like it should be, and then I would say this like professional do: first in first out. So, that nothing is left in the behind of the refrigerator and getting old. So, what comes in first comes comes out first too. And ohh yeah, then those hotel breakfasts! Please. [Lauhgs] That’s a disaster and that’s awful! If you go to the hotel, and if you have to eat the breakfast there, please just take the amount of food that you are eating. It may be a little problem, but it certainly looks awful.
Silvia Gaiani
So, I mean, thank you for the very useful advices you have provided. So, basically you said go shopping with the list. Take care of your fridge, because actually it’s the fridge, the place where most of the food waste starts from the very beginning. For example, my grandmother used to teach me trust your senses. You know when you are not sure if something has expired or not, try a very tiny bite of it and if it is still good, go ahead and eat it because it will not hurt you. So I think we have somehow lost our connection with food.
Paula Juvonen
That’s true. And we should remember that when it’s said best before it, it’s not spoiled on that day.
Silvia Gaiani
Yeah
Paula Juvonen
You can’t trust your senses. That’s a good point.
Silvia Gaiani
Good. And OK, we have been discussing about the consumers. Do you have any advice for a policy maker? I mean, I know they are in a very difficult position. They have to make policies around food waste. Is there one piece of advice you could give to a policy maker who would like to reduce food waste, for example in public services?
Paula Juvonen
Umm, actually quite much have been done, because a couple of years ago you couldn’t sell the wasted food, but now you can. And maybe that’s what I wish more that you can make it even easier to sell the food that is left over.
Silvia Gaiani
OK, so I think there is a strong connection between security, food security, transparency and food waste, and they all should be kept into account when talking about food waste.
Paula Juvonen
Yes, because of course food security is really important, but you can still sell the leftovers with the food security.
Silvia Gaiani
Actually, the paradox of food security is that it may contribute to food waste, because if we are, like you said, too strict with rules and regulations, then it may lead to throwing away even more food. So, I mean this is a very interesting and important point.
- Paula, I think we had a very interesting discussion about food waste, and I really hope now we are a little tiny bit more aware of the role we can all play in reducing food waste. If you have to talk to a child and suggest to this child not to waste food in school, for example, when they are having their meals. What would you say?
Paula Juvonen
That’s the hard one.
[Silvia and Paula laughing in mutual understanding]
Paula Juvonen
Well, I would say, because I would like to educate, that please taste everything but just take a little bite because you can take more if you like it. And then I would say to the teacher that if your class is away for one day, like going somewhere, please tell the kitchen that your pupils are not there, so the kitchen knows that they have to make less food. And then I would also like the children to taste the vegetarian food, because you never know if you don’t taste it.
Silvia Gaiani
Wonderful. Well, I mean, thank you so much for all the insights you provided. I think South Ostrobothnia and Finland they have quite complicated path to take, but I’m sure the results will be good in the end and food waste will be for sure reduced from now to 2030.
Thank you so much for your recommendations and thank you so much for your insights and we really hope that food waste can be reduced, but we need to be united and together in order to make this happen.
Paula Juvonen
Thank you.
[Outro music playing in the background]
Terhi Ahola-Olli
This podcast is produced as a part of Sustainable and Responsible Food Province Project, Co-funded by the European Union. You can find more information about the podcast, and the Sustainable and Responsible Food Province project online. Links are available in the episode description.
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